Just read this account of John Wesley at a meeting:
“Mr. Smyth read prayers, and gave out hymns which were sung by fifteen or twenty fine singers; the rest of the congregation listening with much attention and as much devotion as they would have done to an opera. But is this Christian worship? Or ought it ever to be suffered in a Christian church?”
So the question is…
What should Christian worship in the church setting look like?
Honestly, worship isn't between men, but between myself and my Lord, as it should be for all men. King David did not care what people thought, as he worshiped and celebrated before the Lord in Samuel 6. How I worship isn't necessarily the same as anyone else, although it could be. Nor do I base how I worship according to how others worship. Sometimes, I feel like jumping for joy, other times I am very well introverted, quite and submissive. Are either right? are either Wrong? Ecclesiastes says that There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven – – and then it goes on to list many activities, however that list is not exhaustive. I believe that worship can take on many different forms and that it may mean something different and look different as we mature and grow as Christians.When I am in a worship service, I don't try to act a certain way just because I am in that service, I follow the prompting of the Spirit; and it is not always as the rest of the congregation. For instance: I may be convicted of a sin that I had forgotten about, and had been reminded of because of, or during a song – a song which speaks directly to me – At this time I may fall to my knees to ask for forgiveness…Another instance: I may be overwhelmed with Joy for what the Lord has done, and I am reminded of it during a worship service, and may celebrate this joyfulness.In any instance, it is important to note that worship for me does not happen only during a worship service, it happens at many instances throught the week, day, and sometimes hour!
Thanks for the comment Anonymous. Good stuff.Totally agree on the biblical idea of worship being between a believer and God. Totally agree that worship is a 24/7 thing. But the question was "What should Christian worship in the church setting look like?"If you suggest there is a right way, then there must be a wrong way. What is that wrong way? If there is no wrong way, then there is a logical assumption that truth is relative. What happens if in the corporate setting "your worship" distracts others in their worship?Is it ok to be distracting to others during corporate worship?What IS considered distracting?Can worship that is sincere be sincerely wrong?Or is all worship as long as you say it is "prompted by the Spirit" acceptable?Who judges what is acceptable?I don't imply I have THE answer, but I like the conversation.
I don't beieve the logical assumption to your argument is that truth is relative. I hold to the notion that worship is between you and God. If we assume that there is indeed a right and wrong way to worship, are we not acting just like Michal who dispised David, and accused him of something which was not accurate??!? To administer an environment where individuals are able to worship corporately is difficult, and I assume there will always be nay-sayers to any certain 'style'. Worship in the church setting does not have to be legalistic. Although I believe that Truth is absolute, I do not assume that Truth and Worship are of any equality. Jesus did not say He was worship, but that He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life. We as individuals offer our worship to God not because we have to but because we can. I believe that God is the judge of worship. He knows our hearts. We see this in circumstances throughout the Bible, whether it be as sacrifical worship (Cain/Abel, Jacob, Abraham) or even the Davidic worship – would not God have spoken against any style of worship if it offended Him?Question for you: Do you beleive the Spirit of God works today? And if so; why would we worry about whether or not someone's worship style may be distracting? Could an individuals worship style humble another individual to worshp God, maybe not in the same way, but in their own way? I have been to Worship services in small churches where the special music, the sermon, and the Bible study beforehand all councided together – unplanned. Would this be dumb luck or the Spirit working?I have been to Worship services in other churches where every piece is planned to coincide together – planned. Is the Spirit working in these circumstances?Since worship in a church setting is often spawned by personal reflection, and intamacy with God, cannot worship be invoked to bring the body of believers gathered in a church setting into a corporate worship which incompasses a diverse collection of worshiping?
Dear anonymous,Thanks for your comments. I agree with you.Truth is not relative. It is absolute.God is a judge of the heart.I do believe that the Holy Spirit of God present with us today.I do believe a person's worship style could "humble another individual to worshp God, maybe not in the same way, but in their own way."and so on and so on…I think we agree more than you know. Since it seems as though you and I are the only ones in this discussion, if you'd really like me to answer your questions I'd love to start a dialogue via email where we could encourage one another in a deep discussion of the theology of worship. Otherwise, I appreciate I wish you placing your personal opinions online without it being able to be traced back to you.
Dear anonymous,Thanks for your comments. I agree with you.Truth is not relative. It is absolute.God is a judge of the heart.I do believe that the Holy Spirit of God present with us today.I do believe a person's worship style could "humble another individual to worshp God, maybe not in the same way, but in their own way."and so on and so on…I think we agree more than you know. Since it seems as though you and I are the only ones in this discussion, if you'd really like me to answer your questions I'd love to start a dialogue via email where we could encourage one another in a deep discussion of the theology of worship. Otherwise, I appreciate I wish you placing your personal opinions online without it being able to be traced back to you.
I apologize for not leaving personal information on these responses. I focused on the response, and not to the right where information is presented.
I apologize for not leaving personal information on these responses. I focused on the response, and not to the right where information is presented.
It appears as though you were holding back 😛 I am sure I have read Isaiah 58 before, in passing, but never purposeful. I believe it speaks as I believe; that God is the judge of worship. He knows our hearts. Are we as individuals just going through the actions because 'it is what we do', or are our hearts in worship as well as our actions. Motive. In Isaiah 58, it seems the people of God were motivated not by what God had done for them – praising God with humility and thanksgiving in their hearts, but – by merely going through the bare minimum of motions, as though they could maintain God's 'good graces'. It reminds me of the New Testament passage found in Matthew 15 and again in Mark 7. – Jesus spoke of how the Pharisees had 'let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.' (Scripture quoted from Christ from Isaiah 29) The question becomes: is one really worshipping if their motives are impure? And again, the one worshiping, and God are the ones who could answer concerning the motives – I strongly believe the Spirit of God is alive and well, and works through more circumstances than we may ever know! I have seen God work in my life, (almost always in retrospect), and it amazes me every time that He cares enough about me to show his footprints in my life. I believe that there isn’t the possibility that things happen by ‘dumb luck’; but that the Spirit of God is continually at work all around us. Even the most thoroughly planned event cannot plan for how the Spirit of God will work on individuals. Most often, the following verse is quoted during wedding ceremonies, however I feel it appropriate also in a different perspective: It is written in Mark 10 – Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate. I was hoping the verse would pop out concerning Prophesy and speaking in tongues. This is, I feel, the definitive scripture concerning rules of worship, and again gives reference to Ecclesiastics – a time and a place for everything. I agree.I am always a student of my Lord, and welcome teaching that inspires me to dive into His Word, and meditate on His Word.
It appears as though you were holding back 😛 I am sure I have read Isaiah 58 before, in passing, but never purposeful. I believe it speaks as I believe; that God is the judge of worship. He knows our hearts. Are we as individuals just going through the actions because 'it is what we do', or are our hearts in worship as well as our actions. Motive. In Isaiah 58, it seems the people of God were motivated not by what God had done for them – praising God with humility and thanksgiving in their hearts, but – by merely going through the bare minimum of motions, as though they could maintain God's 'good graces'. It reminds me of the New Testament passage found in Matthew 15 and again in Mark 7. – Jesus spoke of how the Pharisees had 'let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.' (Scripture quoted from Christ from Isaiah 29) The question becomes: is one really worshipping if their motives are impure? And again, the one worshiping, and God are the ones who could answer concerning the motives – I strongly believe the Spirit of God is alive and well, and works through more circumstances than we may ever know! I have seen God work in my life, (almost always in retrospect), and it amazes me every time that He cares enough about me to show his footprints in my life. I believe that there isn’t the possibility that things happen by ‘dumb luck’; but that the Spirit of God is continually at work all around us. Even the most thoroughly planned event cannot plan for how the Spirit of God will work on individuals. Most often, the following verse is quoted during wedding ceremonies, however I feel it appropriate also in a different perspective: It is written in Mark 10 – Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate. I was hoping the verse would pop out concerning Prophesy and speaking in tongues. This is, I feel, the definitive scripture concerning rules of worship, and again gives reference to Ecclesiastics – a time and a place for everything. I agree.I am always a student of my Lord, and welcome teaching that inspires me to dive into His Word, and meditate on His Word.
Good stuff! I see no reason to strongly disagree.As I have said before, this is one of those subjects that bible scholars with many letters before and after their name "agree to disagree" about.The question still remains…"What should Christian wworship in the church setting look like?"I ask the question because when I ran across John Wesley's quote it lead me to ask that question. John, being respected by many as a great "church father", pastor, and theologian, walked into a room and observed what he saw was "worship that should not be.'Was this a moment where he was "in thre flesh?"Or are there signs that point to an unhealthy demonstration of worship in the church?
Good stuff! I see no reason to strongly disagree.As I have said before, this is one of those subjects that bible scholars with many letters before and after their name "agree to disagree" about.The question still remains…"What should Christian wworship in the church setting look like?"I ask the question because when I ran across John Wesley's quote it lead me to ask that question. John, being respected by many as a great "church father", pastor, and theologian, walked into a room and observed what he saw was "worship that should not be.'Was this a moment where he was "in thre flesh?"Or are there signs that point to an unhealthy demonstration of worship in the church?